New VEC primary schools should not teach faith formation
Atheist Ireland agrees with Educate Together and with the Humanist Association of Ireland that children should not be separated according to their religion in the new pilot VEC primary schools, and that there should not be faith formation within school hours.
Atheist Ireland believes that State education should be secular. Children should be taught about the diversity of religious beliefs in an objective manner. Children should be educated in critical thinking and the distinction between faith and reason as a guide to knowledge. Faith formation should be a matter for parents and religions.
We believe this not merely because it is good for society, but also because Ireland today is violating international human rights law by denying secular education to the children of parents who want it.
The United Nations Human Rights Committee has already told Ireland to increase its efforts to ensure that nondenominational primary education is widely available in all parts of the State. And the European Court of Human Rights has ruled that children should be taught about religious culture and ethics in an objective, critical and pluralist manner. It has also ruled that primary schools should not display religious symbols on school walls. Italy is appealing this latter decision.
Atheist Ireland wants a secular state for a pluralist people. This nuance is important: a pluralist society, with freedom of conscience, religion and belief, is best protected by a secular government, with public policy formed by applying reason to evidence.
12 Comments
Dear AI,
My husband and I are setting up a non-denominational primary school in Skibbereen, Co. Cork. The school will be a Montessori school and our teacher will be a highly trained Montessori Directress.
My husband and I feel we have to fund the school ourselves as the State is refusing to recognize our patron body and our school. We will not charge fees as this goes against the spirit of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
This is no small undertaking, and we go from moments of great joy and expectation to despair. It is good to know that Atheist Ireland is out there, and that someone understands the difference between non-denominational and multi-denominational education. All of the State funded primary schools engage in faith formation, including the multi-denominational schools! This is not ok. Does anyone in the department of education/country care?
I will keep you posted as to how things progress with our school.
Kind regards,
AnneMarie Hourihane
Fair play to ye. That’s some project you are taking on. Are you and the husband the patrons? Will you have Dept of Ed recognition?
It’s a long way from Mulligans to Skibbereen
In reply to AnneMarie Hourihane I express surprise at her assumption that faith formation takes place in multi-denominational schools. Educate Together schools teach a core programme that includes a child centered but objective introduction to major belief systems. Most of these schools make the school building available for after- school Faith Formation. This is organised by parents. The only involvement of the school is the provision of the school facilities. This pragmatic arrangement does not constitute Faith Formation on the part of the school.
My children attended a multi-denominational school and received an objective education in world beliefs. As a result they can appreciate many works of art that would otherwise be more difficult to understand. Nevertheless they all still live their lives as secular humanists, agnostics or atheists (not sure they would want to label themselves and think one of them regards herself as a pagan!) – in other words they chose the ‘faith’ of their parents and their peers.
They have all said that they would send their children to exactly the same kind of school. For them it was an enriching experience – the opposite to faith formation/belief nurturing or whatever PC term is now being used for indoctrination.
Maureen
As an atheist in Ireland I have not christened or baptised my child. I’m experiencing terrible difficulties and massive stress as a result of trying to find a primary school that does not require membership of a parish and evidence such as a baptism certificate in order to put his name on a waiting list. As far as I know he is at the bottom of every waiting list of the schools I have applied to. All educate together schools in my area have extensive waiting lists. I have no assurance of a place for him. How can we allow religion to still be a deciding factor in our education system? Religion will distort my childs perception of humanity, it will instill unnecessary fears and worries in him and may actually give him nightmares. As a parent I want to protect my child against anything that will warp his mind including drugs and god. I feel that the Irish education system is discriminating against me and my child. Why are parents so accepting of this, even baptising their children just to get them into school and expecting me to do the same, assuming that I myself was originally a member of some religion which fortunately I was not, so even if I was to baptise him how could I?Now I have no idea where my child will go to school and I only have one year left, his name is down in only four schools, one ET, two church of ireland and one jewish as i feel catholic schools are the most active indoctrinators. Is this situation going to continue where parishes dictate our education? How can human beings grow in such a stunted and biased system?
I am a highly trained Montessori teacher and during my training at irelands number one college part of our training included teaching the Various religious customs and beliefs which give children an open mind and educate them on all beliefs .what sounds disturbing is not wanting them to have or hear about any of these beliefs. And remember all Christian schools have the right to display and teach their beliefs to the children who’s parents have enrolled them in such schools. Choose to be who you want but don’t criticise others for theirs.
And the faith formation that occurs on these christian schools occurs because it us the parents wishes. Any parent that does not want their child to participate in religion class prayers mass has the right to do and the child will engage in a separate activity during that time. There is a reason why there are high enrollments in these schools . It us the parents wishes.
My point is that most schools belong to a church and there are not enough schools which don’t. Why does religion have to be a deciding factor in getting an education on this country- I think indoctrinating children is wrong and I have the right to ask a school that he be excluded from the prayers/classes but that’s only if I can get him into a school in the first place. Of course he will probably experience being singled out because of this. I agree with teaching about different faiths and cultures, tolerance openness I just don’t agree with teaching that god actually exists and that one should believe in god. I do believe that religion can cause anxiety in children- I’m angry that as a child I was terrified of god and I don’t want my child experiencing that fear. No matter how nicely we dress up faith and religion- I want my child to be taught about life based on science, fact and humanity, without being the only child not making his communion in the class. I sound agrresive but honestly there’s not enough alternatives out there and I’m frustrated. People have the right to believe what they want- absolutly! As long as it doesn’t impact on other citizens and their rights. Nothing can change the fact that I because I haven’t christened my son he’s hasn’t got a school to go to. Obviously this is a problem that doesn’t bother people unless it’s their problem too- imagine if religion still decided other things like whether you could marry or get divorced, whether you could go to school at all or vote- thank god (lol) that some things have changed!
AnneMarie,
Have you open the school yet. I would be very interested in finding out more about it.
Catherine O’Connor
Lucinda, you say you were never a member of any religion but still have a huge fear of God, I wonder why this is?
I also think that this statement ”Religion will distort my childs perception of humanity, it will instill unnecessary fears and worries in him and may actually give him nightmares. As a parent I want to protect my child against anything that will warp his mind including drugs and god.” is completely insane. Great to read you feel God can have same results as drugs on peoples mind….as a non believer and all! you’re funny
My point is that most schools belong to a church and there are not enough schools which don’t. Why does religion have to be a deciding factor in getting an education on this country- I think indoctrinating children is wrong and I have the right to ask a school that he be excluded from the prayers/classes but that’s only if I can get him into a school in the first place. Of course he will probably experience being singled out because of this. I agree with teaching about different faiths and cultures, tolerance openness I just don’t agree with teaching that god actually exists and that one should believe in god. I do believe that religion can cause anxiety in children- I’m angry that as a child I was terrified of god and I don’t want my child experiencing that fear. No matter how nicely we dress up faith and religion- I want my child to be taught about life based on science, fact and humanity, without being the only child not making his communion in the class. I sound agrresive but honestly there’s not enough alternatives out there and I’m frustrated. People have the right to believe what they want- absolutly! As long as it doesn’t impact on other citizens and their rights. Nothing can change the fact that I because I haven’t christened my son he’s hasn’t got a school to go to. Obviously this is a problem that doesn’t bother people unless it’s their problem too- imagine if religion still decided other things like whether you could marry or get divorced, whether you could go to school at all or vote- thank god (lol) that some things have changed
2. Secular Democracy
(a) The sovereignty of the State is derived from the people and not from any god or gods.
(b) The only reference in the constitution to religion should be an assertion that the State is secular.
(c) The State should be based on democracy, human rights and the rule of law. Public policy should be formed by applying reason, and not religious faith, to evidence.
(d) Government should be secular. The state should be strictly neutral in matters of religion and its absence, favouring none and discriminating against none.
(e) Religions should have no special financial consideration in public life, such as tax-free status for religious activities, or grants to promote religion or run faith schools.
(f) Membership of a religion should not be a basis for appointing a person to any State position.
(g) The law should neither grant nor refuse any right, privilege, power or immunity, on the basis of faith or religion or the absence of either.
3. Secular Education
(a) State education should be secular. Religious education, if it happens, should be limited to education about religion and its absence.
(b) Children should be taught about the diversity of religious and nonreligious philosophical beliefs in an objective manner, with no faith formation in school hours.
(c) Children should be educated in critical thinking and the distinction between faith and reason as a guide to knowledge. Science should be taught free from religious interference.
4. One Law For All
(a) There should be one secular law for all, democratically decided and evenly enforced, with no jurisdiction for religious courts to settle civil matters or family disputes.
(b) The law should not criminalise private conduct because the doctrine of any religion deems such conduct to be immoral, if that private conduct respects the rights and freedoms of others.
(c) Employers or social service providers with religious beliefs should not be allowed to discriminate on any grounds not essential to the job in question
hi there i am a writer freelance currently writing an article about religion in irish schools my feeling being if the children instead learned a second language like spainish or french it would benefit them more and if the childs parents are so into religion then the religious teaching should be done at home, the article then may switch to say at the very least if this continues the different churches should pay for this to be taught as in cover the teachers salary for hours they teach religion. what i was wondering was if you had any quote for this article from your group or if you had any sources for facts or figures regarding religious education in ireland