i am a evangelical christian

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Adonai88
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Adonai88 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:51 pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: Too many people think that “being open” to something means “Just accepting it”.

I have asked for evidence from many people, both better and worse than yourself, and no one has yet provided me with any. If you have any, I am as always AGOG to hear it.
I assume you do believe in the Evolution Theory then ? Has the evolution theory given you conclusive, tested proves? No ? so why do you believe its true then ? You have probably shown interest and accepted the evolution theory, despite it cannot be proven , but ID and creationism you will not believe, unless someone could prove it ? why that ?
Last edited by Adonai88 on Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Neil
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Neil » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:55 pm

Evolution is as proven and provable a fact as gravity is.
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it."
- Terry Pratchett
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:59 pm

Adonai,

You can make all the ASSUMPTIONS about me that you like. This does not change the fact that:

1) You have not presented any evidence for your first level premise and therefore
2) I have no interest in any second level premises you build on it.

You can lie, twist, shout, assume, guess and invent all you like about me, the above 2 things will not be changed by that.

What I do or do not accept/believe has ZERO influence on whether what you claim is true or not.

Suffice to say that I do not act in my life, nor admonish anyone else to act, based on a second level premise for which I have no established first level premise.

PS There was ZERO need to quote my entire post again. Maybe the mods will rectify that (and maybe edit this sentence out too if they do).
Ygern
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Ygern » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:02 pm

Nozz, you forgot

e) I feel the need to be driven to the shops by you.

Adonai, a lot of people on this forum used to belong to one religious denomination or another.
There's one thing you can be sure of: they didn't become atheists because they hadn't been subjected to enough testifying. Please don't bore us.

On the other hand, we would be fascinated by any kind of evidence you can show us to support your beliefs.
One of your beliefs seems to be that you think evolution didn't happen. What is your evidence for that?

DollarLama linked to a very useful video the other day, worth taking a look at:


Image
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
Cork Skeptics
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:08 pm

Adonai,

Let me also add that your bait and switch to evolution is a crap and dishonest tactic. To me when someone does that all I hear is them saying "I have no evidence for my case, so lets change the subject quick". To cover up your lack of ANY evidence for a god, you wish to instead make me talk about the claim of Evolution. You may as well start a conversation about Ballistics or Chemistry.

Let me explain.

I shall elaborate on the conversation I was rather touched to see Hemingway was pleased enough with to paste.

"The two boys part 2"

Child 1: "I am still not convinced”
Child 2: "Well do you think your parents are your parents? Do you believe that?"
Child1: "Yes of course!"
Child 2: "Aha! I have a document here that shows you were adopted. They aren’t your parents!"
Child 1: "Oh.... feck."
Child 2:" See.... the stork brings them!”
Child 1: “Errr what?”
Child 2: “Well I showed you that the thing you believe was wrong. Therefore what I am telling you is MORE true”

In other words:

1) There may or may not be a god
2) Evolution may or may not be the correct interpretation of the evidence
3) If 2) is 100% wrong, 1) does not suddenly become MORE true.

Either present evidence for YOUR position…. Or DONT. Attacking someone ELSES position does not make YOUR position more true. It never has. It never will. It never should.

Let my repeat in short:

Do you, or do you not, have any evidence for your first level premise that there is a non human higher intelligent entity that is responsible for the creation of the universe.

It is a yes/no question.
Adonai88
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Adonai88 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:45 pm

Neil wrote:Evolution is as proven and provable a fact as gravity is.
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/evolution.html

Microevolution - Unequivocally proven through numerous scientific studies. Includes concepts such as mutation, recombination, natural selection, etc.

Macroevolution - Extrapolation of microevolution to account for all changes in body designs, speciation, appearance of new phyla, etc.

Therefore, I accept microevolution as a scientifically reliable theory, which describes the intelligent design with which organisms were endowed by their Designer. However, in contrast to the reliability of microevolutionary theory, macroevolution is not supported by the record of nature or current scientific research. Even evolutionists admit these major problems in the scientific journals
Adonai88
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Adonai88 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:47 pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: PS There was ZERO need to quote my entire post again. Maybe the mods will rectify that (and maybe edit this sentence out too if they do).
you have not answered my post nr.9
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:51 pm

Adonai88 wrote:you have not answered my post nr.9
False.
Adonai88
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Adonai88 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:52 pm

Ygern wrote: Adonai, a lot of people on this forum used to belong to one religious denomination or another.
There's one thing you can be sure of: they didn't become atheists because they hadn't been subjected to enough testifying. Please don't bore us.
I have a solution for you, if you do not want to be bored by me. Just don't show up here :wink:
On the other hand, we would be fascinated by any kind of evidence you can show us to support your beliefs.
I am sorry, but i cannot do anything , if you blatantly ignore my presented evidence.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... _gaps.html

There are three major areas that have been posited to provide evidence for the existence of God. Thomas Aquinas, argued in favor of the existence of God on the basis of fundamental aspects of the universe such as causality and change. William Paley argued that the hand of God is evident in the apparent design of the universe and living beings. The third line of evidence argues that God makes Himself evident in personal transcendent experiences of people. Of these three lines of evidence, science has eliminated none
Neil
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Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Neil » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:01 pm

Adonai88 wrote:Therefore, I accept microevolution as a scientifically reliable theory, which describes the intelligent design with which organisms were endowed by their Designer. However, in contrast to the reliability of microevolutionary theory, macroevolution is not supported by the record of nature or current scientific research. Even evolutionists admit these major problems in the scientific journals
Did you not read what I posted on the difference between micro- and macro-evolution? Clearly not.
The actual definition of macroevolution accepted by scientists is "any change at the species level or above" (phyla, group, etc.) and microevolution is "any change below the level of species."
The species line here is arbitrary. If you accept microevolution, you must accept macroevolution. One is simply an extension of the other. It's completely illogical to accept that mutations can occur, but not to accept that they can eventually lead to speciation.
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it."
- Terry Pratchett
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